Interview with Laura White, Freelance producer

Laura got her start in television by playing dead. After offering to play a dead body for a friend’s feature, she made her first contact in the business - which quickly led to ten more. She talks to us about sending television crews around the world, gives tips on climbing the ladder in the world of unscripted television, and tells us what will get your resume sent to the bottom of the pile.

Read the interview below. You can also watch her series of videos here.

Who are you, and what do you do?

My name is Laura White. I'm an associate and field producer in factual television, and that involves looking after my crew! I'm getting them from point A to point B, making sure they're well looked after—safety being a priority wherever we are—making sure everybody's making the same show, and making a great show!

What’s an average week like in your role?

So my average week as a field producer—sometimes referred to as an associate producer—is usually pretty long, to begin with! I work a minimum of 80-hour weeks and oftentimes I will work seven days through. What my role entails is really just making sure that we have all the elements to create a show, that everybody's working towards making the same show, and that it's all going well in a way that is interesting, dynamic and fun for a viewer to watch.

The nature of the show will dictate a lot of what my role is. Oftentimes, because the types of shows that I do are primarily travel-oriented, I'm getting our crews in and out of the country, facilitating carnets, making sure that everybody's visas are in place and up-to-date and that everybody knows what the plan is going through customs and getting settled once we do land and in another place. Sort of the nature of travelling is that when we do land, oftentimes we don't speak the language of the country. So, we partner up with fixers who also help facilitate who we're meeting with, and where we're staying, and all those little things you need in terms of logistically getting a show together and making it functional; like cell phones and meals, making sure that everybody's got a place to eat and that they have water to drink and, you know, somewhere safe to put their head down at the end of the night. I'm mostly responsible for making sure that all happens and oftentimes I'm making sure that happens through the fixer and then I'm also working hand-in-hand with the director every day to make sure that their vision—the vision that they've committed to with the producers back in our offices—is actually happening on the day in the field.

Sometimes my my role will kind of delve into almost a little bit of second unit directing, if we have an opportunity to split hosts or we have multiple people. I might take a second camera guy off into a separate room and pop off a couple of quick questions; or maybe the camera unit and I might go over and just shoot some beautiful B roll in a market somewhere while the rest of the team is interviewing somebody at a stall—that kind of thing. So, you know, the elements of my job are pretty vast. I just kind of fill in hands wherever they need them, and then make sure that the train is moving without any issues.

There is also an element of creativity every day, not only in problem-solving, but also just sort of being able to influence the show a little bit. And—it's awesome!

How did you get to where you are now? What was your career path like?

The nature of this business—because it is all contract work, and contracts for an associate producer or field producer last probably anywhere between two months to six months to a year—it's really all in who you know.

But, once you get your foot through that first door it doesn't take much. You develop 30 new contacts from a show, and then you have 30 new people to recommend you to the next production.

I went to school for Film Studies at Carleton University. I'm not sure I would recommend it(!) especially if you do decide to go the field-producing route, only because it's based on a lot of theory. If I could go back, I would definitely go the college route. Or if, you know if I was a real TV buff, and I felt competent enough in my understanding of the basic concepts of creating TV, I might even just skip school altogether and invest a little DSLR and go about making my own stuff until I meet the right people and create some really awesome, interesting content!

But yeah, I went to university and then I got my foot through the door sort of through a random sequence of events. I volunteered to play a dead body for a friend of mine who was doing a little film contest! And then, through that, I met a great make-up artist in Ottawa, who put me in touch with some producers who were working on a big feature at the time in Ottawa. And then, I worked that one feature and it was awesome. A lot of the crew on that show had been shipped in from Toronto and they said to me, "Your contacts are fresh now—like, now that we've all met each other. Why don't you just make the leap to Toronto, just come on down and see what you can do?" And, I did! I landed an internship at a factual TV production house and basically haven't looked back since. I think that was seven or eight years ago now.

So before volunteering to play dead body, I really didn't know anyone in the industry other than my peers at university—who, between all of us, really didn't have any real contacts in the industry. So, just get your foot through the door in any way you possibly can. And, keep working at it.

You know, so much of this business is all about your work ethic... if you're willing to work hard enough, if you're willing to show up every day despite the long hours, put in the time, keep a smile on your face and, you know, really come together to build something. It's always going to be a giant beast to make a TV series. So, you have to be committed completely. But if you are committed, and you do have a real passion for it, that will return to you through time, and beating the path until you can meet the right people.

You moved up from interning to field production. How does someone “move up the ladder” so to speak?

When I first got into this industry, I just had a general interest in TV and film, but I had no idea that I wanted to be a field producer.

I just kind of stumbled in. In trying out all the roles on set—I had PAed, I was a production coordinator for a long time, then I became a unit manager on set, and kind of, you know, tested the waters. Then I realized that I had a real love for it and it kind of leaned into my skills. There's a pretty famous book going around: Sheryl Sandberg's "Lean In." There's a little chapter in there that's always kind of stuck with me, about how we have to sort of stop thinking of the world as a ladder, especially in terms of what your career path will be, and more like a jungle gym. Like, just kind of get to the playground and feel it out. Start as a PA, start in any way that you can get your foot through the door, and just try as many different roles as you can have an opportunity to test out.

In terms of becoming a field producer, it's a bit of a weird one because there's not a lot of lead-up precedents for it. You could become a production assistant, which is basically the sort of starting role in the TV and film industry where you are just kind of a hand that fills in wherever on set. And that's a great experience, just because it gives you that sort of on-set, real feel for how the dynamics of a crew work. Great PAs are already sort of predicting everyone's needs and making things happen behind the scenes before somebody is calling for, you know, whatever it is—more tape that they need, or an apple box, or whatever. That's awesome.

But it's very difficult to make a leap from a PA to a producer. So from there, I would recommend seeking out and trying a couple of different sort of departments if you can. But unit managing roles, which are kind of hard to find these days, are probably the most direct route.

And then really, in this business especially, doing your own stuff can give you a huge leg up. Now, looking back, I wish that I had done a couple of documentary shorts—even if they never went anywhere, even if I just threw them up on YouTube. Just for that experience, to say that I have produced something, or directed something and you know, really committed to what my skills were and practiced them. I think that goes a long way. Now that I look at my friends who did sort of focus more on that route, I really admire them a lot and I think that they had an understanding of field producing that it took me a lot longer to get to.

So, I mean, just do what you can. Get out there and test the waters as much as you possibly can in every way, and you might find a passion even in something that you thought you might not enjoy. I thought I would go into film. Now, there's not a chance that I would turn away from factual television. This is my ultimate love!

Just try it until you find whatever works for you. Get your foot into the industry and then you can work it out from there. It doesn't have to be a traditional trajectory. You can just kind of fly by the seat of your pants and do what you enjoy the most. When you're operating in the role that you're most suited to and that gives you the most fulfillment, that's when you'll start producing the best TV or film that's out there anyhow. When you're in your own element, as the best version of yourself, it's just better for everyone.

What are some of the challenges of working internationally in television?

I remember standing in the street in Tel Aviv, Israel, and not yelling but firmly discussing with —I guess, he was a police officer or a parking attendant... kind of an official. I needed our bus to pull up so our crew could load on, and he was just upset that this bus was pulling up for about five or ten minutes on this fairly busy street (but not a crazy busy street).

And then, as soon as we finally did board the bus, the driver was like, "I can appreciate that you love your crew, but you almost cost me a $500 ticket." And I was like, "OH!" I feel sort of horrible for those kinds of things!

There are fires and that you have to put out every day, and maybe you don't realize how big they are until they're over; you're just dealing with them in the moment. But every every single day presents a new challenge. You know, we've had situations where it's bedbugs—and you know, bedbugs are always a bad scenario when you've all stayed on the same floor of a hotel and it's carpet room to room. Or, just being stuck somewhere with no cell service, no bathrooms, no nothing—and then having to procure food out of nowhere for your crew who have just worked six and a half hours and are starving.

Sometimes you work shows that are low risk, like a food show. Inherently there's risk just because you're you're travelling, you're out of your element, but it is manageable, But, I've also worked shows like a tornado series where we were in precarious positions every other day. Those situations are probably the most difficult to make judgment calls, just because they involve your crew's safety every day. And the crew itself—it is sort of the nature of the industry—there are amazingly dedicated people who are really willing to push the envelope in terms of delivering a great show, seeing some awesome stuff and getting it on camera in the best way possible. So it's difficult to rein them back in those moments. But, there have been times, like on the tornado shower, where you're like, "Well guys, we're just making TV, we're not saving lives. Nobody dies today. Let's just not die today."

Do you have any stories of things going wrong abroad?

You never know what to expect in this business. I had been working this series—a travel real estate reality series—and we were sending a crew to Nicaragua. We have all the proper documentation in place. Nicaragua is not a country that recognizes ATA Carnets, so we had to work with—I think it was the tourism bureau and business bureau— two branches of the Nicaraguan government. We secured all the permits in time everything seemed to be in place. So we sent our crew down not thinking much of it, not a worry in the world, really!

Then I got a phone call at three o'clock in the morning. They had landed, they had been there for a couple of hours. And it was it was my field producer, actually, who was down there. He was standing outside, they had just made it through customs and he was like, "So you know, we're here, we made it through customs. Everybody's here—but pretty much none of our gear."

What had happened was just maybe a week or two earlier, they had caught another film crew who had been travelling overland, and had been back and forth across the border a couple of times, with a large sum of undisclosed cash and traces of substances in their production van. So I think just to maybe to prove that they weren't asleep at the wheel, they wouldn't acknowledge our paperwork when we arrived—even though we had been working with some high-level ministers in Nicaragua to obtain it, and everything had been signed off on. So, they decided that they wanted to seize our gear until they cleared it with the proper authorities during the next business day.

Of course, in different places, the bureaucracy can be a little bit more intense even than it is here in Canada. And our gear was seized for about a week or two even by the end.

So, we managed to get our hands on a little 5D. which is really just like a DSLR camera. And, our sound guy had actually got through with his gear. So technically, that was enough to shoot a show while we were down there! But, just the nature of a real estate series means that oftentimes you need to have these sort of beautiful sweeping shots and things like that. We were totally without all of that sort of specialized gear that we would have had to have brought in from Canada or some from some very film-oriented community. And so, at one point, I found myself sending my field producer YouTube clips on how to build a jib, from plywood and like gym weights!

Somehow, they managed to actually shoot out that episode and came back, collected their gear on the way OUT and came back with a with a complete show, which was amazing. And, yeah, just ridiculous. I can't believe we pulled that off.

But yeah, there are fires every single day, that that will present you with challenges you would never have thought possible. And when you do, when you're able to overcome those, when you make a miracle happen? It's incredibly rewarding. It is one of my favorite aspects about this role as a field producer. You are just kind of rolling with the punches, figuring out the best possible solutions and making them happen as quickly as possible. It is a big adrenaline rush—it's just a lot of fun! It brings a whole new dynamic element to this business that probably keeps me going. I don't know what that says about me as a human—but it's fun!

It sounds like a lot of stress. What have been some of your most rewarding moments on the road?

This was one of the most adorable moments of filming in my life, you know, even now to this day.

We were filming in this little town up at the northwestern border of Guatemala and Mexico.
We were filming this sweet little sequence where it was just two people on camera and a bit of dialogue. And then the school let out that was maybe half a block away and about 100 kids came down the street. We were pretty prominent, just being tourists; we weren't dressed like locals and we kind of stood out like sore thumbs. But, when they saw our cameras, it was like the spectacle show. All of a sudden, I found myself standing in the middle of the street in Guatemala, with, it must have been over 100 kids, all standing there; I was just asking them to politely hash and they were so awesome. They were so quiet, they were just all mesmerized by a camera in town.

And I remember looking down at this group of little girls sitting right next to me. They had their notebooks open and were furiously flipping through their pages. I realized they were looking for the English-Spanish translations just to you know, try to converse with a few words, and it was so awesome and endearing. and oh my gosh it was amazing.

What abilities and qualities are necessary to succeed in this industry?

I think the most important skill to bring to the table, to the best of your ability—if you do want to be involved in international travel and factual TV or film in general—I think the biggest thing is resiliency.

No matter what challenges are presented to you, you will have horrible days where you know, even if you do succeed at the end of the day, you just have to endure the, like, rough tumble of it all. It's just exhausting. And when we do work hours as long as we do for stretches, as long as we go, you know, and you're probably jetlagged and you're probably eating some stuff that's making your stomach feel not so great—just getting back up every day and facing the world with that positive, dedicated ambition and love for what you're creating is so important. Because, if you lose that resiliency, if you let yourself go for one day, it can cost you you know, the pace of a show. It can cost you a lot, ultimately. As a field producer, between you and the director, you are the morale lead for your crew. If you are not feeling up to the challenge, then the rest of your crew will not feel inspired either.

You have to kind of really bring it—you have to find it, reach down deep, and pull it all together. And then, in addition to that, I think resiliency comes easy if you can think quickly on your feet and problem-solve like no tomorrow. Because, no matter what role you're in, in a travel crew, you will face challenges that you probably don't have all the ideal resources to solve. But, ultimately, you will have to figure out a way—and you might have to get very creative about how you go about doing that.

So, if you can if you're naturally inclined towards problem solving, it's a great asset to bring to the table.

Problem-solving, resiliency, ambition... I think, also, it is helpful to keep an open mind about everything. The nature of travelling, whether personally or professionally, of course, is that if you're travelling with other people there may be a bit of a challenge in terms of personalities alone. If you maintain an open mind and just try to understand, try to be empathetic to everybody else's needs and feelings and whatnot, will just make things smoother. And then, also if you can bring that open-mindedness to whatever culture you're experiencing, to the people that you're interacting with who come from very different backgrounds than what you're used to— it will just go a long way towards making things better. You'll get an overall better TV series, and then also, things will go smoother for you.

Do you need to go to school to enter this industry? How do you get your foot in the door?
For this industry, there are quite a few awesome college programs out there that can really help you the minute you get on your resume, but also allow you to build those contacts while you're in school—both with your peers and others. You never know, the guy sitting next to you might have an uncle who's a big-name producer who's been in the industry forever and has already introduced him to everyone. Or, it could be your professor who still works in the industry, and is just sort of moonlighting by teaching on Wednesdays, or whatever.

That can be awesome and huge, but I think it's important in in this industry, especially, to weigh the cost of that. If you're putting yourself into significant debt and removing yourself from the workforce for anything more than four years, I think you really have to take a long hard look at what your financial resources are, and what your personal connections are. Do you have an "in" already in the business?

Spend your summers doing a couple of side projects and add to your portfolio—that's hugely beneficial.

If you really want to get in the business right away, maybe test the waters just start going to everything. Join the Facebook groups that are out there; there are quite a few but there are some, especially in Canada, that are very active and can lead to a lot of success. Go to the networking events, go to just meet everyone you possibly can. E-mail a producer if you have a couple of pitch ideas and see if they'd be willing to sit down for coffee with you. Or, if you have an opportunity—if you meet a producer or a professor at your college as a producer and they're willing to, you know, hear you out for 15 minutes on a couple of ideas you have—then that is all amazing.

Looking back personally, now, I wish I hadn't doubted myself so much. I spent a lot of time being anxious and making sure that I was following the right steps, and paying my dues, and taking my time, and making sure that I knew enough in this role. I knew every aspect of this role before I moved up to the next one, which is great and awesome in some ways—but also, I feel like I did hold myself back because of self-doubt. It took me forever before I was willing to pitch an idea to any producer just because I lacked the confidence. So, spend some time, and do a bit of soul-searching in that way too. That confidence will come the more events you go to, and the more people you meet. Once you get comfortable with everyone too that'll get you a long way. But, take a couple of risks! Do some things, even if it doesn't really pan out for you (you can always, you know, hide that YouTube video!)

So formal education isn’t a must?

Formal education definitely helps. Especially if you do want to move on and eventually work for a broadcaster or the like, you will need a post-secondary education. So, you know, not something to omit long-term if that's the direction you want to go.

If you're convinced, though, that you maybe just want to be a film producer or something along those lines, it might not totally be necessary.  It is important to note, though, that broadcasters have final sign-off on the key crew, directors, producers etc. for every show. So, if you don't have that formal education or you don't have a really, really strong resume, it will likely lessen your chances of getting those roles.

So, you know, weigh the cost-benefits for you and maybe—like we were talking about before—maybe that traditional ladder, step-by-step journey isn't what your career looks like. Maybe it is a bit of a jungle gym. Maybe you work for five years as a PA, or take a couple of more entry-level roles until you kind of get a sense of what you really want to go after. And then take a step back and go to school from there— take two or four years off and focus your energies on what you know you want to do.

It's a little bit weird to me that we still, you know, send kids out at the age of 17 from high school; we just send them off into the world and tell them ok, go spend $30,000 to $40,000 (in Canada) on an education that you think you'll probably like. It seems weird to me! Like, you know, let yourself almost intern LIFE. Test the waters. Watch people in the roles that you think you might be interested in, talk to them, get a sense of what they're all about. Get a sense of what your skills are in the actual workforce, and where they might be best applied, and go from there. Don't be afraid to take a non-traditional route.

Every couple of months to this day, I still take career development courses or something else that I might be interested in. I find that in this business, where most of my career has been focused on broadcast television, as we transition away from broadcast into online providers or branded content, I find that my role or my understanding of the content that I was producing, is veering more into online worlds. I needed to really brush up on my understanding of social media. I've started taking coding courses just to understand how HTML works and what the potential is in an online world. How can we create experiences for people that go beyond the traditional one-hour-30-minute broadcast television content, to make something that could be more dynamic and interactive, and provide more layers of experience for viewers?

Do you have tips for interviewing in this industry?

Be prepared for anything. Oftentimes, if I'm interviewing for a role with somebody I've never met, I do hear that I was hired because I present a lot of positive energy. Speak from a place where you can translate your real-life experiences into the role that they're asking you about.

I think a big mistake a lot of people make—in every business—is to not tailor their responses and their resume to the specific role that they are interviewing for. Right? Every show presents its own challenges and expectations, and my job morphs into whatever is required to get it off the ground and going. Once you get a bit of experience, it's pretty easy to figure out what the basic strengths are that someone is going to need for a show.

Say you're doing a baking series. You know that there's going to be an element of travel. You're going to be working with people who are probably not used to being on camera, so you know, there's going to be a bit of a role there—comforting whoever you're about to put on camera.

And so, going into an interview for a show like that, I can bring my experience of having travelled to many places by land and air, etc— and so being adaptable for crew that are going to need to go to unique places. If it's someplace in Nebraska or wherever, that doesn't happen airport for 300 kilometers, then you know, you have that experience and having driven from wherever to wherever.

But then I can also focus on presenting such a positive attitude, and talk about how I've worked with on-camera talent in the past—by kind of walking them through through in a detailed, comforting manner to explain how the day will look and how the scheduling works and how the crew works and you know, taking the time to ever introduce everyone. I know the producers have been like, "Yes! That's what we're looking for, somebody who gets it, who can empathize with whatever our contributors are going to be feeling on the day." Because, the moment they do get on camera this person, or this Mom and Pop Shop couple who have never been on camera before—maybe they never seen a film crew before—is 1000 times more comfortable on camera if you take the time to do that. You are just going to get to a better show.

So, you know, whatever the role is, spend a little bit of time beforehand, thinking about what that show would require, and then try and present yourself as that perfect sort of solution to whatever their needs are. It's been a huge thing.

At the same time, though, I do find in this business—I've had experiences where people will call me up out of the blue and want to do a phone interview. I'll find myself talking with somebody I've never met for a role that they haven't really told me about yet. So that can be a little bit interesting! In those cases, I find it's almost better just to appeal to the personality that you're dealing with on the day. If you've been called by somebody who doesn't have a lot of time, obviously, to schedule an interview or whatever, just try and keep your answers succinct, on point. Present yourself as true as you possibly can, and present yourself as a team player to solve whatever issues will come up—as they always do—and then just roll from there.

What do you look for when you’re hiring entry-level production assistants on a crew?

When I'm looking to staff my crew, or when I have opportunities to put somebody's name forward, my Rolodex only ever includes people who I know I can trust, people who are not the type to deceive. If I've ever caught you, not necessarily lying but just kind of, you know, toying with the truth to make yourself look better especially, then I might not say anything to you, but I will probably never call you again.

But outside of that, aside from trust and honesty in whoever I'm hiring, it's again the person who's dedicated, who I know is going to show up on time every day with a positive attitude, who is willing to work. That, to me, is more important than somebody with a ton of experience. And I think that humility almost goes a long way, especially for the roles that I'm usually hiring for.

Obviously, if you are a director of photography, or whatever it is, and it's all about your vision and your hard skills, the visuals that you often obtain—or if you're a director and you were just excellent at that very nuanced interview—then that's a separate story, where you're in a league of your own, almost. But for some sort of more generic entry-level positions, what is important is a lot of that, as I said, positive attitude, dedication, showing up every day, honesty and humility. And then, outside of that, obviously if you're a whip-smart person who can just kind of figure things out and anticipate people's needs, that's huge for me and I will treasure you forever!

Are there common mistakes that people new to the industry make?

Number one—maybe this is more of a personal pet peeve for me—but the length of resumes.

If you're new to this business, as a PA or whatever entry role position it is, I totally understand the fact that you're coming into this and you will need to learn some new skills to get you there. So, I don't need a resume that's three pages long and you know, over 2000 words! That is my biggest cringe moment, and I will instantly put your resume to the bottom of the pile.

You know, just a simple one-page resume is awesome, because the nature again of this business is that we know what it's like. Tell me the name of the show, the broadcaster, maybe a couple of producers you worked with, the production company and the dates. That's all I need. A little summary of your education, maybe some other skills you have. If you are interested in PAing, let me know if you have a driver's license or not. That's huge. I can't express how many times I've heard of PAs being hired only to find out two days later that they don't have a license and then you know, we've just... we just need somebody, due to the nature of the show, who can drive.